The Bitcoin Treasury Podcast

Michael Sullivan joins the show to explain why he published the most bullish piece of his bear market at $63K, and why Bitcoin ripped 15% in 48 hours right after. Michael spent thirteen years as a fintech engineer and writes fiction on the side, and he's turned both into a methodology: measuring the emotion in how Bitcoiners actually talk, cohort by cohort, week by week. His argument is that when every trader is bored, fearful, and rotating into AI and quantum, that isn't a bear signal.
TIMESTAMPS:0:00 Intro0:21 From boredom to a 15% move in 48 hours2:34 Why apathy produces the biggest moves5:27 The trader cohort and the rotation to AI and quantum7:35 The price heat map: nobody talking about price9:55 Bessent, liquidity, and why narratives get rewritten12:26 From fintech engineer and novelist to language analysis15:50 What he actually measures19:13 Signal versus noise: bots, aggregators, and cohorting by hand22:15 Why MSTR holders got more convicted25:51 Fundamentalists versus capitalists28:40 The treasury investor is a different investor31:59 Modeling institutional sentiment34:56 Why X is the highest-signal source36:29 BIP 110 and the echo chamber40:52 mNAV is sentiment44:52 STRC narrative volatility49:08 The bear case: what would flip him50:38 Fading the four-year cycle54:50 Is the four-year cycle dead?57:14 Where to follow Michael
🎙️ Featured Guest: Michael Sullivan — author of Bitcoin Sentiment Weekly, fintech engineer, and novelist
Kalshi Perps Sign up at https://kalshi.com/p/bitcointreasuriesPlease carefully consider if it is appropriate for you in light of your personal financial circumstances. Kalshi products are not available in all jurisdictions.
See kalshi.com/regulatory for more information.
Leverage amplifies both potential gains and potential losses, and losses can exceed the amount deposited. Leverage limits are determined by KalshiEX LLC or the FCM based on its own risk assessment and each customer's individual risk profile, and are subject to change.
Perpetual Futures are listed on Kalshi Ex LLC, a CFTC-regulated exchange, and may be traded directly as an exchange member or through an approved broker. This video is sponsored by Kalshi.
🤝 SUPPORT OUR SHOW:
BitGo is the institutional-grade digital asset infrastructure trusted by thousands of institutions worldwide. A publicly traded company on the NYSE, BitGo offers regulated custody, OTC trading, financing, and settlement under one roof — and holds a federally chartered national bank license from the OCC. Learn more at https://bit.ly/bitGo
Arch Lending offers the most transparent Bitcoin-backed borrowing experience in crypto — industry-leading rates from 8.49%, qualified custody, no rehypothecation, and verifiable segregated addresses. Simple terms and public pricing at every size. Learn more at https://bit.ly/archlending
XCE Connecting Excellence Group is the UK's listed Bitcoin treasury recruitment company — placing senior talent into Bitcoin companies globally and helping operating businesses build on a Bitcoin standard. Learn more at https://bit.ly/XCEio
Hemi — Activate compliant Bitcoin yield without leaving custody. Built by Bitcoin OG Jeff Garzik, Hemi is the only blockchain that embeds a full Bitcoin node inside an Ethereum node for true Bitcoin finality. Follow them at https://twitter.com/@hemi_xyz and learn more at https://hemi.xyz

Matt Tuttle is CEO of Tuttle Capital Management, an ETF issuer running roughly four to five billion dollars across thematic, options-based and event-driven funds. He has been on Wall Street since 1990 and came to Bitcoin through the ETF wrapper rather than through conviction. His argument is that the wrapper was the entire event: once BlackRock launched IBIT the skeptic case stopped being arguable, and his client portfolios now carry 6.25% Bitcoin against an industry standard of one to two percent.
TIMESTAMPS:00:00 Cold Open00:52 Trading Since the Eighties01:51 The iBit Turning Point02:52 The Argument Wall Street Can No Longer Make05:08 Why 1% Bitcoin Doesn't Move the Needle06:30 The HEAT Formula08:54 The Hard Money Hedge10:58 What Actually Broke the Treasury Trade12:30 Bitcoin Fell 50%, the S&P Fell 60%15:24 How to Play Pre-Merger SPACs20:44 Why He Hates Covered Calls22:27 All of Bitcoin's Upside, Not Most of It25:41 Partnering With Strive on Digital Credit28:06 A Million Dollars and $40,000 a Year30:02 Inside the Leveraged Credit ETF34:58 Why Volatility Isn't Maturing Yet38:01 Schiff, Pomp, and the Debate That Misses45:27 Wiped Out at 2148:15 Zero Percent Bonds at 5750:14 The Longevity Problem Nobody Plans For51:46 Grading Powell, Sizing Up Warsh53:56 Guys Like You Are Screwed56:36 Where to Find Matt
🎙️ Featured Guest:Matt Tuttle — CEO, Tuttle Capital Management
Kalshi Perps Sign up at https://kalshi.com/p/bitcointreasuriesPlease carefully consider if it is appropriate for you in light of your personal financial circumstances. Kalshi products are not available in all jurisdictions. 
See kalshi.com/regulatory for more information.  
Leverage amplifies both potential gains and potential losses, and losses can exceed the amount deposited. Leverage limits are determined by KalshiEX LLC or the FCM based on its own risk assessment and each customer's individual risk profile, and are subject to change. 
Perpetual Futures are listed on Kalshi Ex LLC, a CFTC-regulated exchange, and may be traded directly as an exchange member or through an approved broker. This video is sponsored by Kalshi.
🤝 SUPPORT OUR SHOW:BitGo is the institutional-grade digital asset infrastructure trusted by thousands of institutions worldwide. A publicly traded company on the NYSE, BitGo offers regulated custody, OTC trading, financing, and settlement under one roof — and holds a federally chartered national bank license from the OCC. Learn more at https://bit.ly/bitGo
Arch Lending offers the most transparent Bitcoin-backed borrowing experience in crypto — industry-leading rates from 8.49%, qualified custody, no rehypothecation, and verifiable segregated addresses. Simple terms and public pricing at every size. Learn more at https://bit.ly/archlending
XCE Connecting Excellence Group is the UK's listed Bitcoin treasury recruitment company — placing senior talent into Bitcoin companies globally and helping operating businesses build on a Bitcoin standard. Learn more at https://bit.ly/XCEio
Hemi — Activate compliant Bitcoin yield without leaving custody. Built by Bitcoin OG Jeff Garzik, Hemi is the only blockchain that embeds a full Bitcoin node inside an Ethereum node for true Bitcoin finality. Follow them at   / @hemi_xyz   and learn more at https://hemi.xyz

Matt Cole is back. The last time Strive's CEO sat down with Bitcoin Treasuries, they had roughly 6,000 Bitcoin. Today they're closing in on 20,000 — a top seven public holder — and they did it while Bitcoin fell close to 50%.
He covers how the digital credit engine kept running through the bear market, the super cycle thesis, why the $60 trillion income market's structural breakdown created a permanent bid for SATA, the controlled burn that trapped a $100M+ short position, the investor protections institutions actually care about, his candid take on Saylor's missteps with the cash reserve, why the death of crypto is bullish for Bitcoin, and why every company without Bitcoin should be scared of AI.
Follow Matt: ⁠https://twitter.com/@ColeMacro⁠
Learn more: ⁠https://strive.com⁠
🎟️ Bitcoin Treasuries Conference — September 28, New York CitySave 10% on tickets: ⁠https://bit.ly/4f1kGV5⁠
 
TIMESTAMPS:
⁠00:00⁠ Cold Open⁠
01:21⁠ Why This Bear Market Was Different
⁠05:03⁠ Income Investing Is Broken
⁠07:05⁠ When Matt Knew SATA Would Work⁠
15:49⁠ Credit Risks Of Digital Credit
⁠18:40⁠ Strive's Capacity To Issue More Prefs
⁠21:04⁠ Building a Track Record & Institutional Trust
⁠26:57⁠ The Engine Behind Strategic Decisions⁠
33:17⁠ Amplification & USD Runway⁠
40:30⁠ M&A in the Bitcoin Space
⁠44:09⁠ Semler Merger Story & Industry Networking⁠
47:24⁠ Criticism From Bitcoiners⁠
53:14⁠ SATA's Controlled Burn Strategy⁠
59:42⁠ Super Cycles, AI & Crypto's Death
⁠1:04:55⁠ Stay Orange
 
🏛️ Institutional custody & OTC at bit.ly/bitGo
🔒 Secure your Bitcoin with COLDCARD — use code 6BT for 6% off at bit.ly/coinkiteStore
🏦 Borrow against your BTC from 8.49% at bit.ly/archlending
💼 Bitcoin executive recruitment at bit.ly/XCEio
⚡️ Bitcoin yield without leaving custody at bit.ly/hemiXYZ
 
📊 Track every Bitcoin treasury company at bitcointreasuries.net
⚠️ Not financial advice. Do your own research.
🟠 Stay Orange.
 

Jeff Garzik was one of Bitcoin's first core developers. He emailed patches directly to Satoshi, helped build the foundational software Bitcoin still runs on, and bought the domain that became BitcoinTalk.org. Now he's building Hemi — a Bitcoin-secured L2 — and he has a message for every Bitcoin treasury company: you're leaving money on the table.
He covers the Great Slashdotting of July 2010, why the white paper almost didn't matter without the code, the early fear of being arrested for open source development, why 99% of crypto going to zero is actually great news, what Hemi is and why Bitcoin programmability has existed since the genesis block, the De-Genslerification that unlocked institutional Bitcoin, and why yield is the missing step every treasury company is skipping.
Follow Jeff: https://twitter.com/@jgarzik Learn more: https://hemi.xyz
🎟️ Bitcoin Treasuries Conference — September 28, New York City Save 10% on tickets: https://bit.ly/4f1kGV5
CHAPTERS:00:00 Cold Open00:55 Bitcoin's Exciting Earliest Days10:03 The Excitement of Early Bitcoin Days15:58 Bitcoin Can't Be Stopped21:50 Darwinian Competition In Crypto28:02 Understanding Hemi: A New Layer for Bitcoin38:30 Treasury Companies Are Missing Yield Opportunity46:15 Is Centralization A Concern?50:50 Stay Orange
🏛️ Institutional custody & OTC at bit.ly/bitGo
🔒 Secure your Bitcoin with COLDCARD — use code 6BT for 6% off at bit.ly/coinkiteStore
🏦 Borrow against your BTC from 8.49% at bit.ly/archlending
💼 Bitcoin executive recruitment at bit.ly/XCEio
⚡️ Bitcoin yield without leaving custody at bit.ly/hemiXYZ
 
📊 Track every Bitcoin treasury company at bitcointreasuries.net
⚠️ Not financial advice. Do your own research.
🟠 Stay Orange.

Dylan LeClair is the first Metaplanet executive to speak publicly in English about Metaplanet Securities — the newly acquired Type 1 securities license that the company says changes everything about how Japan accesses Bitcoin. He joins Miller Cole for the full breakdown.
They cover what a Type 1 license actually unlocks, $7 trillion in idle Japanese savings, why institutional career risk hasn't been stripped away in Japan yet and what flips it, the MSTR rerun Dylan sees playing out, Project Nova, the tokenization rails being built for daily dividends, the Mars and Mercury preferred instruments, and why 27 months of unwavering conviction through a bear market is the most important thing Metaplanet has built.
Follow Dylan: ⁠https://twitter.com/@DylanLeClair⁠
Follow Miller: ⁠https://twitter.com/@medc3005⁠
Learn more: ⁠https://metaplanet.com⁠
 
🎟️ Bitcoin Treasuries Conference — September 28, New York CitySave 10% on tickets: ⁠https://bit.ly/4f1kGV5⁠
 
🏛️ Institutional custody & OTC at bit.ly/bitGo
🔒 Secure your Bitcoin with COLDCARD — use code 6BT for 6% off at bit.ly/coinkiteStore
🏦 Borrow against your BTC from 8.49% at bit.ly/archlending
💼 Bitcoin executive recruitment at bit.ly/XCEio
⚡️ Bitcoin yield without leaving custody at bit.ly/hemiXYZ
 
📊 Track every Bitcoin treasury company at bitcointreasuries.net
⚠️ Not financial advice. Do your own research.
🟠 Stay Orange.
 

Tim Enneking has been in crypto for thirteen years and previously ran the best-performing hedge fund in the world in 2021. He joins Alec Beckman of Psalion for a conversation on the death of the four-year cycle, why Bitcoin is being mislabeled as a risk-on asset, and why Strategy's concentration may now be a risk to the very market it helped build.
They cover Enneking's Law, the long squeeze risk in leveraged Bitcoin buying, what Strategy's endgame actually has to look like, the Clarity Act as the next major catalyst, and how Psalion generates Bitcoin yield through automated market maker liquidity — with self-custody preserved on the lending side.
Learn more: https://psalion.com
 
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Cold Open
01:13 The End of the Four-Year Cycle
04:59 Bitcoin as a Risk-On Asset
13:16 Institutional Influence on Bitcoin
18:59 Bitcoin and Fiat's Runway
31:47 Saylor's Dilemma & Concentration Risk
37:22 Strategy Buying The Top Forever?
45:02 MSTR Endgame & BTC Yield
 
📊 Track every Bitcoin treasury company at bitcointreasuries.net
⚠️ Sponsored content produced in partnership with Psalion. Not financial advice. Do your own research.

Robbie Mitchnick is Managing Director and Global Head of Digital Assets at BlackRock — the world's largest asset manager. He led the launch of IBIT, the most successful ETF in Wall Street history. Now BlackRock has launched BITA, a covered call Bitcoin product targeting high teens yield while retaining 70% of Bitcoin's upside.
Bitcoin Treasuries President and The Bitcoin Historian Pete Rizzo joins Tyler Rowe for the full conversation. They cover the IBIT inflow and outflow data, the hodler thesis ($48B of IBIT's $50B drop was Bitcoin's price, not outflows), why Bitcoin's narrative was badly mismanaged, the machine native money thesis, the debt and deficit catalyst, and why BlackRock now says the question isn't whether Bitcoin is too risky — it's whether it's risky not to hold any.
Follow Robbie: https://twitter.com/@RMitchnick Follow Pete: https://twitter.com/@pete_rizzo_
🎟️ Bitcoin Treasuries Conference — September 28, New York City Save 10% on tickets: https://bit.ly/4f1kGV5
 
CHAPTERS:00:00 Cold Open01:48 IBIT 2.5 Years In - Smashing ETF Records07:15 IBIT Investors Are Hardcore HODLers08:41 Bitcoin Portfolio Guidance12:42 Demand For Institutional BTC Exposure14:01 Bitcoin Yield & Investor Profiles16:05 Bitcoin ETFs vs Strategy or Strive17:37 Demand For Derivatives & Volatility20:54 Onshoring BTC Options Market22:22 BITA vs STRC, SATA & Digital Credit23:14 What Robbie Thinks About Saylor's Strategy24:43 How Larry Fink Evolved On Bitcoin27:28 BTC Narrative Problems & Debt, Deficit & AI37:03 BTC Infrastructure Maturity39:10 BlackRock's Roadmap & Restraint41:33 Tokenization & The Broader Ecosystem44:05 When Does Crypto Cross The Chasm?45:26 Is It Risky To NOT Hold Bitcoin?47:37 Robbie's Message To The Institutional Skeptics48:38 Stay Orange
 
🏛️ Institutional custody & OTC at bit.ly/bitGo
🔒 Secure your Bitcoin with COLDCARD — use code 6BT for 6% off at bit.ly/coinkiteStore
🏦 Borrow against your BTC from 8.49% at bit.ly/archlending
💼 Bitcoin executive recruitment at bit.ly/XCEio
⚡️ Bitcoin yield without leaving custody at bit.ly/hemiXYZ
 
📊 Track every Bitcoin treasury company at bitcointreasuries.net
⚠️ Not financial advice. Do your own research.
🟠 Stay Orange.

Strategy dropped a five-point digital credit framework on a Monday morning. By midweek MSTR was up 11% with Bitcoin flat. Alexandre Laizet of Capital B and Soleil of True North break down why — and why the story isn't that Saylor sold Bitcoin, it's that he built a balance sheet with more firepower than any traditional company has ever had.
They cover the $2.55B USD reserve policy, the STRC dividend raise to 12%, the $2B in buyback programs, and the BTC monetization framework. Alexandre makes the case that June and early July 2026 marked the passage from a retail-driven digital credit market to genuine institutional participation. Soleil breaks down the SATA short squeeze mechanics, the 62% overnight borrow rate, and why the soybean analogy explains everything critics are getting wrong about Strategy selling Bitcoin.
Follow Alexandre: https://twitter.com/@AlexandreLaizet | https://twitter.com/@_ALCPB Follow Soleil: https://twitter.com/@nithusezni
 
🏛️ Institutional custody & OTC at bit.ly/bitGo
🔒 Secure your Bitcoin with COLDCARD — use code 6BT for 6% off at bit.ly/coinkiteStore
🏦 Borrow against your BTC from 8.49% at bit.ly/archlending
💼 Bitcoin executive recruitment at bit.ly/XCEio
⚡️ Bitcoin yield without leaving custody at bit.ly/hemiXYZ
 
📊 Track every Bitcoin treasury company at bitcointreasuries.net
⚠️ Not financial advice. Do your own research.
🟠 Stay Orange.

Andrew Webley IPO'd The Smarter Web Company in April 2025 when nobody in the UK believed a Bitcoin treasury model would work. Fourteen months later, SWC has raised nearly a quarter of a billion pounds, holds 2,878 BTC, uplisted to the London Stock Exchange, achieved FTSE index inclusion, and acquired Squarebird Agency — and Andrew says the best is still ahead and he can't talk about it yet.
He covers the full origin story, what Saylor told him when they met in London, why the UK is the perfect market for Bitcoin preferred equity, what he learned watching STRC and SATA get stress-tested, why FTSE 250 is in touching distance, and his one-sentence answer to every Bitcoin treasury critic.
Follow Andrew: ⁠https://twitter.com/@ASJWebley⁠ Learn more: ⁠https://smarterwebcompany.co.uk⁠
 
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Cold Open
01:35 Andrew's Journey with Bitcoin and Smarter Web Company
09:06 The SWC IPO & Initial Challenges
14:07 Building A Strong Shareholder Base & Community
19:47 Optionality and Mergers & Acquisitions
29:23 Market Positioning In The UK (FTSE 250 & Beyond)
34:13 Preferred Equities In Europe
38:16 Learning From Michael Saylor & Strategy
46:27 The Evolution of STRC & Digital Credit
53:18 Competition Between Bitcoin Treasuries
56:53 Addressing Criticism in the Bitcoin Community
1:02:39 Stay Orange
 
🏛️ Institutional custody & OTC at bit.ly/bitGo
🔒 Secure your Bitcoin with COLDCARD — use code 6BT for 6% off at bit.ly/coinkiteStore
🏦 Borrow against your BTC from 8.49% at bit.ly/archlending
💼 Bitcoin executive recruitment at bit.ly/XCEio ⚡️ Bitcoin yield without leaving custody at bit.ly/hemiXYZ
 
📊 Track every Bitcoin treasury company at bitcointreasuries.net
 
⚠️ Not financial advice. Do your own research.
 
🟠 Stay Orange.
 

Sam Callahan, Nick Payton, and Alexandre Laizet join Tyler Rowe to break down why STRC at $84 is a 13.7% yield opportunity, what caused the cascading peg breach, and why being bearish on Strategy means being bearish on Bitcoin.
*In this episode:*✅ Why STRC at $84 represents a 13.7% effective yield — and Sam Callahan's case for why the numbers say it recovers
✅ The cascading liquidation event explained — leveraged carry trades in traditional finance, not DeFi, hit the same level and broke the peg in a cascade from 90 to 82
✅ Why Strategy retiring convertible debt actually improved credit quality — and why the market got it backwards
✅ If you're bearish on Strategy, you're bearish on Bitcoin over the next five to ten years — Sam Callahan makes the case
✅ Three buckets for Bitcoin investors — self-custody Bitcoin, digital equity (MSTR), digital credit (STRC/SATA) — and who each is for
✅ Alexandre's framework: Strike offers Bitcoin-backed loans, Strategy issues digital credit — different sides of the same trade
✅ Odell's tweet — "never put yourself in a position where you need Bitcoin price to go up in the short term" — and why four analysts think that's exactly what Strategy has avoided
✅ BitGo hits Fortune 500 at #273 — and how the inventor of Bitcoin's 2-of-3 multisig became the first infrastructure play to go public
✅ Orange BTC's World Cup campaign — buying 1 Bitcoin for every Brazil goal
*TIMESTAMPS:*00:00 Cold Open01:58 Navigating BTC / MSTR Bear Market02:34 STRC, SATA Digital Credit Price Shocks18:29 Market (Over)Reactions To Strategy20:24 The Role of Investor Relations28:37 Durable Bitcoin Treasury Strategies39:02 Bitcoiner Criticism of Treasuries59:52 Competition vs. Collaboration in BTC1:06:57 Expanding Leveraged BTC Exposure1:10:02 Oranje's World Cup Promotion1:12:48 BitGo's Impact on Bitcoin Adoption
*🎙️ Featured Guests:*Sam Callahan — Director of Bitcoin Strategy and Research, OranjeBTC.
Follow Sam at https://twitter.com/@samcallah
OranjeBTC: https://oranjebtc.com
Nick Payton — VP of Marketing, BitGo.
Follow Nick at https://twitter.com/@NickDPayton
BitGo: https://bitgo.com
Alexandre Laizet — Board Director of Bitcoin Strategy, Capital B.
Follow Alexandre at https://twitter.com/@AlexandreLaizet
Capital B: https://cptlb.com/
*🤝 SUPPORT OUR SHOW:*BitGo is the institutional-grade digital asset infrastructure trusted by thousands of institutions worldwide. A publicly traded company on the NYSE, BitGo offers regulated custody, OTC trading, financing, and settlement under one roof — and holds a federally chartered national bank license from the OCC. Learn more at https://bit.ly/bitGo
COLDCARD is the industry-leading Bitcoin hardware wallet. Secure your Bitcoin at https://bit.ly/coinkiteStore — use referral code 6BT to get 6% off at checkout!
Arch Lending offers the most transparent Bitcoin-backed borrowing experience in crypto — industry-leading rates from 8.49%, qualified custody, no rehypothecation, and verifiable segregated addresses. Simple terms and public pricing at every size. Learn more at https://bit.ly/archlending
XCE Connecting Excellence Group is the UK's listed Bitcoin treasury recruitment company — placing senior talent into Bitcoin companies globally and helping operating businesses build on a Bitcoin standard. Learn more at https://bit.ly/XCEio
Hemi — Activate compliant Bitcoin yield without leaving custody. Follow them at https://twitter.com/@hemi_xyz and learn more at https://bit.ly/hemiXYZ
*🔗 Resources:*🔔 Follow Bitcoin Treasuries: https://twitter.com/@btctreasuries
🔔 Follow Tyler: https://twitter.com/@tylercompiler
🔔 Subscribe: https://youtube.com/@bitcointreasuriesnet
📊 Track every Bitcoin treasury company at https://bitcointreasuries.net
*🎬 About the Show:*Bitcoin Treasuries with Tyler Rowe interviews executives, investors, and industry leaders navigating the Bitcoin treasury revolution.
*⚠️ Disclaimer:*This podcast is for informational purposes only. Not financial advice. Always do your own research.
🟠 Stay Orange.